The 100 Most Significant German Films

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Re: The 100 Most Significant German Films

Postby R6dw6C » Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:20 am

A already criticised this list a bit but I have to go one step further: I absolutely dislike this list. It's useless and ignorant. What is it made of? Silents, commercial Post-WWII-Films from the 40ies and Films from the New German Cinema (Fassbinder, Kluge, Schlöndorff, Herzog, Wenders, etc.). There aren't much more films in it, almost no commercial German films from the period 1950 - present, almost no important Underground-Films, almost no Documentaries (we have a small, but significant canon of them), no animation films (yes, there are some!), almost no children films, to put it simple: Almost no Non-Consensus-Critic-Films. I've totally been into German Cinema for many years (I still am, after all, my cinematic obsession started with it!) and to see such an uninspired, pretentious and elitistic list representing the "Coronation" of Germany's film history makes me really ill.

Maybe I'm not the right person to backbite about it because I've only seen 52 of those films but I just wanted to put it right: Germany has many more interesting departments and movements to offer than those which appear in this poor list (and poor not because of the films - though I find it odd to honour lukewarm men like Volker Schlöndorff or Wim Wenders that much)
R6dw6C
 


Re: The 100 Most Significant German Films

Postby arsaib4 » Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:39 am

Again, the list consists of works that the panel considered as the "most significant." You need to keep that in mind, R6. This one isn't primarily about lesser-known, esoteric films that we tend to champion (though it certainly has a few of those if you look closely).

Maybe I'm not the right person to backbite about it because I've only seen 52 of those films...
arsaib4
 

Re: The 100 Most Significant German Films

Postby R6dw6C » Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:11 am

Just as a demonstration:

1 Film: 1900 - 1910
2 Films: 1910 - 1920
21 Films: 1920 - 1930
17 Films: 1930 - 1940 (no film after 1935, btw.)
9 Films: 1940 - 1950
10 Films: 1950 - 1960
10 Films: 1960 - 1970 (ridiculous - the 60ies were SO !!! important, not only for German Cinema)
16 Films: 1970 - 1980
11 Films: 1980 - 1990

Nothing after 1990... there were some REALLY significant films up to 1995...

Many silents are lost but still, there were not nearly as many films produced than later in the century.
From the 50ies to the late 80ies, Germany had an enormous output, nearly as big as Italy's or Japan's.
What does significant mean? According to this list, the more social critical, society critical and history based a film is, the more significant it is. Bah. It's childish.
According to this list, only films that received international success (which means: were awarded and appreciated by critics) are significant.
According to this list, films that deal with unpleasant, controversial themes can never be really significant.
According to this list, only " good" (= serious for the sake of being serious) or non-commercial films are significant. What about films like "Jud Süß / Jew Süss", "Zu neuen Ufern", "Liebe kann wie Gift sein", "The Third Sex", "Different from the Others", "The Fellowship of the Frog", "The Dead Woman of Beverly Hills", "Schoolgirl's Report", "Es" or "The Treasure of Silver Lake", "Deadlock", the films of Rosa von Praunheim, "Nekromantik", "Die Jungfrauenmaschine", "Schramm", "Der Fan", etc., etc., etc.?!!?!!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!

@ arsaib:

Well, I considered that. I love many, many films from this list, btw. But to include films like "Der Himmel über Berlin" or "Die Drei von der Tankstelle" is just... ridiculous. Or "Die Abenteuer des Baron Münchhausen" - Just because it was probably the most expensive (and, as far as I know, only coloured) German film from the 40ies? I beg that wasn't meant to be totally serious. (Such) A film by Joseph von Baky...! I mean... doesn't "significant" mean outstanding, revolting, influential, innovative, inventing, unique, superior, remarkable...?!

By the way, there are also many films on the list which are practically unknown and almost never shown here. Critics, Filmmakers and Editors also have their own taste and, of course, they are big buddies with institutions like Die Deutsche Kinemathek.

My complain isn't so much about the films on the list but more about the films which are NOT on the list. I'm sure, half of the films from the 20ies and the 30ies are just on it because they are from the 20ies and the 30ies which are considered to be the most significant decades of German cinema today by all those idiots mediocre talkers and writers who call themselves professors, critics, insiders, film- and media scientists or whatever. Sorry for being so striking but the German cinema with all of its faces, shadows, tranformations and its beauty has a very warm place near to my heart (it's a phrase, I know) and I was offended personally a bit. You know, I tend to take things a bit too personal...
R6dw6C
 

Re: The 100 Most Significant German Films

Postby arsaib4 » Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:30 am

The fact remains that you've only seen half of the films on the list. Your little chart there proves that, for the most part, it's divided pretty evenly (it wouldn't have made a big difference for me even if it wasn't). If they had the likes of Schoolgirl's Report and The Treasure of Silver Lake on the list, then people would be bitching about why isn't there more Murnau and Lang. It's impossible for any list to please everyone, but for you to keep harping on that it's totally insignificant is unfair and a tad ridiculous.
arsaib4
 

Re: The 100 Most Significant German Films

Postby arsaib4 » Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:43 am

I'm glad you clarified you stance when you edited your post.
arsaib4
 

Re: The 100 Most Significant German Films

Postby R6dw6C » Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:59 am

Of course you're right to keep an eye on the fact that I've seen only half of the films (many are still unavailable for "mere mortals") but considering that,

If they had the likes of Schoolgirl's Report and The Treasure of Silver Lake on the list, then people would be bitching about why isn't there more Murnau and Lang. I must say that it's really inappropriate to put almost half of the films by G. W. Pabst, Lang and Murnau (I like all three of them!) on the list and ignoring influential, successful and productive directors like Harald Reinl, Roland Klick, Christoph Schlingensief, Monika Treut, Jörg Buttgereit, Egon Günther, Franz and Georg Marischka, Rosa von Praunheim, Peter Schamoni, Klaus Lemke, Veit Harlan, Rolf Olsen, Alfred Vohrer, Rudolf Thome, Eckhart Schmidt and a whole bunch of other superior artists who also stamped the German Cinema quite a lot but who were never liked too much by the conservative and opinionated German critics (1st rule: If a film doesn't contain social critisism, it can hardly be art) who put this list together (I mention them just to demonstrate, don't want to boast).

Film Critics are a whole different species here, I'm most jealous of other european countries and also the USA for many respectable critics who would've probably made a very different list if they were German.

But I honestly don't want a struggle here, I'm pretty opinionated myself if it comes to my very personal special subjects / interests and so it would be difficult to carry on with this discussion in the right way. What I wrote wasn't anger about you but just about this list which was (for me) another perfect example why German films are never treated the right and honest way in their own country.

Anyway, I'll try to watch all the "missing" films from the list in the future but my regrets that there is - with reservations - only this face of German Cinema known in the rest of the world, will stay. That was my original reason for posting all that stuff - Please, all of you from the US, Canada, Asia and the Rest of the world - don't take this list overly serious.

I apologize for being so aggressive. I shouldn't post here when I'm in a bad mood...
R6dw6C
 

Re: The 100 Most Significant German Films

Postby R6dw6C » Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:07 am

I'm glad you clarified you stance when you edited your post. Thinking before talking, thinking before talking, thinking before talking... sometimes, this order is hard to keep, you know.

I love the "Edit"-Option, I'm devoted to it.
R6dw6C
 

Re: The 100 Most Significant German Films

Postby arsaib4 » Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:30 am



I must say that it's really inappropriate to put almost half of the films by G. W. Pabst, Lang and Murnau (I like all three of them!) on the list and ignoring influential, successful and productive directors like Harald Reinl, Roland Klick, Christoph Schlingensief, Monika Treut, Jörg Buttgereit, Egon Günther, Franz and Georg Marischka, Rosa von Praunheim, Peter Schamoni, Klaus Lemke, Veit Harlan, Rolf Olsen, Alfred Vohrer, Rudolf Thome, Eckhart Schmidt and a whole bunch of other superior artists who also stamped the German Cinema quite a lot but who were never liked too much by the conservative and opinionated German critics (1st rule: If a film doesn't contain social critisism, it can hardly be art) who put this list together (I mention them just to demonstrate, don't want to boast).

You're exaggerating just a little, but your point is taken. I like many of the filmmakers you mentioned, including those from East Germany, which thankfully the list didn't ignore (there are at least a dozen East German films on the list). I'm glad you responded passionately, and knowing you, your reasons were pure and you didn't mean to incite anyone, which is what you often see online.
arsaib4
 

Re: The 100 Most Significant German Films

Postby wpqx » Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:31 am

Well I've only seen 51 and there are certainly enough films on that list for me to greatly expand my knowledge of German cinema, unfortunately some of them are films I'm looking for but have been unable to see, but I imagine I'll do a lot more damage to it when all is said and done.

Honestly though is this any worse than the AFI's list of American classics though?
wpqx
 

Re: The 100 Most Significant German Films

Postby arsaib4 » Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:38 am

Your earlier comment gave me the impression that you'd seen more than just half of them, wpqx. I'm at 78, so I feel proud... on second thought, perhaps I shouldn't be since R6 doesn't want anyone to take it too seriously.
arsaib4
 

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